Thanks for your succinct take on what we all see but can't put into words. If I hear "what about the men?" anytime soon, I'm going to scream loud and hard. "Men suffer too!" Good Goddess. there is absolutely no comparison. Thinking today about the "mother and baby" homes in Ireland, where girls and women were left to suffer as slaves, their children stolen or murdered. Tell me again, men, how much you suffer. You ran away and got away with impregnating these children and women. /Rant
"On the surface, misogyny and misandry seem like tit for nut, right?" And exactly, when I read the line about pages and libraries, I said out loud, "we're not speaking the same language!" Thanks for going there.
I'm sick of the false equivalence. It's childish, defensive, and stupid.
You are such a clear thinker! I love your statement: “It’s not two sides of the same coin. If misandry is a coin, then misogyny is the banking system.”
I laughed out loud a bunch of times, which is preferable to crying in frustration. I see this false equivalence all the time. Thanks for naming it so precisely. Oh, those men who can't see the ocean they pollute, swimming through their own filth, taking it in through their gills. Now, that's an ICK.
I'm so proud to be a source of Ick for manbabies bothered by female independence. I have been a woman who isn't prepared to "receive" for 61 years now.
I double down on the Ick Factor by being a fat, disabled old broad who has the audacity to exist where I might be seen by the tender eyes of manbabies who believe women are supposed to look like (and have the brains of) Barbie dolls.
Another awesome essay, Dina. I would also point out that misogyny is not just about men hating women. It is also about women hating women or society intrinsically devaluing women. For example, my mother would remind my sister and I that before my baby brother came along she was very disappointed in her offspring. Specifically, having a boy was her duty and reason for being. She still likes to tell the story of how she was disappointed when I was born first. She cried when my sister was born second. Third time's a charm. Finally the valuable baby boy!
God, I wrestled with this one so much, so I’m thrilled it worked in the end (also, this month is CRAZY for me, so I’m just happy I was able to get something new out at all)
Thank you for the amusing little read. I must be behind the times because I had never heard misandry before. It is certainly an interesting concept in that so few women are truly dismissive of men and all their weaknesses. Men truly are the weaker sex yet we as women pander to that weakness and use it as a way to control them. I would say that women discuss less than ten percent of the time how weak men truly are. It is something that we sense, naturally and that we naturally feel protective about. We end up being our own worst enemy with that natural maternal protectiveness. Anyway, I digress. I enjoyed what you have to say and will look forward to future writings.
Thank you, Maureen. There is a researcher who thinks that what women “hate” is not men, but machismo (his words), which makes more sense to me, but the word gets tossed around more these days in certain circles, mostly by those who believe that men are victims of systemic discrimination and that Feminism has “gone too far”.
I think that the research on that is moving closer to the real situations. While I do not believe that feminism has gone far enough in some areas but when you look at what happens to women worldwide it is really hard to feel sorry for the male plight . There may be some actions that males perceive as being unfair 🤔... it kind of makes me think about the civil rights era. Many white people mistakenly equated fair treatment for people who have been so mistreated as a reverse racism toward whites. Equal opportunities means that everyone, not just whites, must be eligible for the American dream. Anyway you are delightful and I am glad I happened upon your substack !
When every cell in a man’s body holds the memory that they are entitled to everything and that if a woman comes along and simply asks to be treated like a human and in doing so that might make them feel like they’re getting less than they’re entitled to… They recoil in horror like a toddler who’s being asked to share. We can create all the words we want to… Unfortunately, until we start raising boys differently, it won’t matter. And you’re right sadly I feel as though the right men won’t read your essay unless it becomes a requirement in school in order to play football. Sigh…
I like the solutions based approach. Sometimes, I think is would be enough to start requiring kids to read female authors in English lit. classes, something that ever a few years ago I had to kick up a fuss about in my son’s class. @Ally Hamilton and I talked about this the other night—what are the changes we need to implement, and you’re 100% right, a lot of it comes from parenting.
It’s sad to think how much pressure we put on teachers to educate our kids beyond the basics. Both my parents were teachers. And well, teachers play a very important, and formidable role in the expansion of our children’s awareness about the world, you need a license to have a dog, but not to have a kid.
Have I told you my son was the only guy in the AP Fem Lit class his senior year of high school? I was talking to him last week and he had just finished For Whom the Bell Tolls and was starting Jacob’s Room. On his own time, because he wanted to. I was like, are you trying to make me cry??? lol
Such a great reminder, Dina. It’s lazy (and I, too, have been lazy in this regard) to think of misandry and misogyny as functional opposites. They are not. Thanks for clarifying; so helpful.
I think I qualify as a misandrist. I don’t hate men but I don’t trust them. I don’t want to spend time around them. I don’t like the way they act or the things they say. I want them to leave me alone. Just keep on walking buddy, eyes straight ahead. There is nothing for you here. I come by this prejudice honestly from my own lived experience. I’ve seen some real shit and most of it was perpetrated by men.
If I were a black woman I think I’d feel the same way about white people including white women. Maybe then I’d be accused of “reverse racism” which most reasonable people who have ever read a book fiction or nonfiction by a black author knows is not a thing.
I don’t actually think misandry is a thing either. It’s just a justification for men to keep being misogynists. It’s spin.
I remember being a girl fascinated by the natural world and its quirks (still am). I remember for a short while as a girl - before puberty, patriarchy, misogyny all worked together to make me forget until I was much older- that when I realized men had their genitals on the outside I thought- huh, they aren’t THAT strong or well evolved. I had read about other animals who had their male gonads tucked in until they needed them. I thought that was a much better design for fighting and survival, etc. I remember asking my Sunday school teacher if god was everything and created everything- that means god is both, not just male, or god is not a gender. She told me I had to believe god was a guy because I had to believe everything in the Bible. I told her it wasn’t fair the way he treated Eve w the whole curse in childbirth thing- Adam messed up, too but he doesn’t have to risk DYING to reproduce. I was given several books and told to read and save my questions for the pastor. Eventually the pastor told me that “asking too many questions “ is a sign of weak faith. I love mystery and magic and wonder in the universe. But you are gonna tell me that the gender with just more upper body strength and with his most important delivery system of reproduction hanging and sagging and visible with only a few layers of skin around it is supposed to “dominate” the other gender?
I had so many questions as a kid that made me go- “this isn’t logical.” I remember watching nature shows where lots of females of other species- bird, mammalian and fish could reject the male after he did his courtship “ritual” if it just didn’t interest them. I thought, even as a 9 year old girl-human females have to settle more with whom they mate, it seems, than a bird or a fish or a bear.
My Sunday School teacher for about 2 years just kept me busy running errands, making things and not letting me answer questions with MORE questions.
And I loved your metaphors in this piece- very good at a visual to explain misandry.
Great read—I finished and enjoyed it while waiting at the dentist 😊. Thank you for sharing it.
I must admit I was as well a bit behind the times and had to Google misandry.
While reading, I found myself thinking about the millions of women and young girls in my country, Afghanistan, who are brutally deprived of opportunities, rights, and freedoms simply because of their gender.
The bright and smiling faces of little girls I see in streets born into a country and culture where being female is a basis for exclusion and condemnation are something I can never fully comprehend without feeling heartbroken. They possess so much potential, talent, and hope for life, yet so much of it is stifled by a deeply ingrained patriarchal system—one that, in many cases, is also perpetuated and supported by women themselves.
Thanks for your succinct take on what we all see but can't put into words. If I hear "what about the men?" anytime soon, I'm going to scream loud and hard. "Men suffer too!" Good Goddess. there is absolutely no comparison. Thinking today about the "mother and baby" homes in Ireland, where girls and women were left to suffer as slaves, their children stolen or murdered. Tell me again, men, how much you suffer. You ran away and got away with impregnating these children and women. /Rant
Keep ranting. All these things that women have kept inside for too long. Keep ranting.
"On the surface, misogyny and misandry seem like tit for nut, right?" And exactly, when I read the line about pages and libraries, I said out loud, "we're not speaking the same language!" Thanks for going there.
I'm sick of the false equivalence. It's childish, defensive, and stupid.
Thanks, Dina. So good, as always. xo
You are such a clear thinker! I love your statement: “It’s not two sides of the same coin. If misandry is a coin, then misogyny is the banking system.”
Thank you for being a strong voice!
It took me a while to get there with this one, so I am happy it worked out in the end! Thank you for taking the time to read!
I laughed out loud a bunch of times, which is preferable to crying in frustration. I see this false equivalence all the time. Thanks for naming it so precisely. Oh, those men who can't see the ocean they pollute, swimming through their own filth, taking it in through their gills. Now, that's an ICK.
The etymology aspect was new to me. And then it all made perfect sense…I’m glad you laughed. We ALL need more of that.
I'm so proud to be a source of Ick for manbabies bothered by female independence. I have been a woman who isn't prepared to "receive" for 61 years now.
I double down on the Ick Factor by being a fat, disabled old broad who has the audacity to exist where I might be seen by the tender eyes of manbabies who believe women are supposed to look like (and have the brains of) Barbie dolls.
Another awesome essay, Dina. I would also point out that misogyny is not just about men hating women. It is also about women hating women or society intrinsically devaluing women. For example, my mother would remind my sister and I that before my baby brother came along she was very disappointed in her offspring. Specifically, having a boy was her duty and reason for being. She still likes to tell the story of how she was disappointed when I was born first. She cried when my sister was born second. Third time's a charm. Finally the valuable baby boy!
That breaks my heart a little bit :-(. And yes—plenty of misogyny amongst women (hence the 90% of the world!) which also breaks my heart a little bit.
Thank you for making my day! What a great way to explain the difference. I really like the coin/banking system metaphor. Keep up the great writing.
Thank you for the kind words!
All I can say is : You have done it again, Dina. Perfection! 👏👏👏👏👏
God, I wrestled with this one so much, so I’m thrilled it worked in the end (also, this month is CRAZY for me, so I’m just happy I was able to get something new out at all)
You were pitch perfect!
Thank you for the amusing little read. I must be behind the times because I had never heard misandry before. It is certainly an interesting concept in that so few women are truly dismissive of men and all their weaknesses. Men truly are the weaker sex yet we as women pander to that weakness and use it as a way to control them. I would say that women discuss less than ten percent of the time how weak men truly are. It is something that we sense, naturally and that we naturally feel protective about. We end up being our own worst enemy with that natural maternal protectiveness. Anyway, I digress. I enjoyed what you have to say and will look forward to future writings.
Thank you, Maureen. There is a researcher who thinks that what women “hate” is not men, but machismo (his words), which makes more sense to me, but the word gets tossed around more these days in certain circles, mostly by those who believe that men are victims of systemic discrimination and that Feminism has “gone too far”.
I think that the research on that is moving closer to the real situations. While I do not believe that feminism has gone far enough in some areas but when you look at what happens to women worldwide it is really hard to feel sorry for the male plight . There may be some actions that males perceive as being unfair 🤔... it kind of makes me think about the civil rights era. Many white people mistakenly equated fair treatment for people who have been so mistreated as a reverse racism toward whites. Equal opportunities means that everyone, not just whites, must be eligible for the American dream. Anyway you are delightful and I am glad I happened upon your substack !
If that’s the only thing you keep us around for, here’s the key to your chains:
https://www.amazon.com/StarBlue-Opener-Seniors-Weak-Hands/dp/B0FQ2XWHLK/
When every cell in a man’s body holds the memory that they are entitled to everything and that if a woman comes along and simply asks to be treated like a human and in doing so that might make them feel like they’re getting less than they’re entitled to… They recoil in horror like a toddler who’s being asked to share. We can create all the words we want to… Unfortunately, until we start raising boys differently, it won’t matter. And you’re right sadly I feel as though the right men won’t read your essay unless it becomes a requirement in school in order to play football. Sigh…
I like the solutions based approach. Sometimes, I think is would be enough to start requiring kids to read female authors in English lit. classes, something that ever a few years ago I had to kick up a fuss about in my son’s class. @Ally Hamilton and I talked about this the other night—what are the changes we need to implement, and you’re 100% right, a lot of it comes from parenting.
It’s sad to think how much pressure we put on teachers to educate our kids beyond the basics. Both my parents were teachers. And well, teachers play a very important, and formidable role in the expansion of our children’s awareness about the world, you need a license to have a dog, but not to have a kid.
Have I told you my son was the only guy in the AP Fem Lit class his senior year of high school? I was talking to him last week and he had just finished For Whom the Bell Tolls and was starting Jacob’s Room. On his own time, because he wanted to. I was like, are you trying to make me cry??? lol
Such a great reminder, Dina. It’s lazy (and I, too, have been lazy in this regard) to think of misandry and misogyny as functional opposites. They are not. Thanks for clarifying; so helpful.
I think I qualify as a misandrist. I don’t hate men but I don’t trust them. I don’t want to spend time around them. I don’t like the way they act or the things they say. I want them to leave me alone. Just keep on walking buddy, eyes straight ahead. There is nothing for you here. I come by this prejudice honestly from my own lived experience. I’ve seen some real shit and most of it was perpetrated by men.
If I were a black woman I think I’d feel the same way about white people including white women. Maybe then I’d be accused of “reverse racism” which most reasonable people who have ever read a book fiction or nonfiction by a black author knows is not a thing.
I don’t actually think misandry is a thing either. It’s just a justification for men to keep being misogynists. It’s spin.
I remember being a girl fascinated by the natural world and its quirks (still am). I remember for a short while as a girl - before puberty, patriarchy, misogyny all worked together to make me forget until I was much older- that when I realized men had their genitals on the outside I thought- huh, they aren’t THAT strong or well evolved. I had read about other animals who had their male gonads tucked in until they needed them. I thought that was a much better design for fighting and survival, etc. I remember asking my Sunday school teacher if god was everything and created everything- that means god is both, not just male, or god is not a gender. She told me I had to believe god was a guy because I had to believe everything in the Bible. I told her it wasn’t fair the way he treated Eve w the whole curse in childbirth thing- Adam messed up, too but he doesn’t have to risk DYING to reproduce. I was given several books and told to read and save my questions for the pastor. Eventually the pastor told me that “asking too many questions “ is a sign of weak faith. I love mystery and magic and wonder in the universe. But you are gonna tell me that the gender with just more upper body strength and with his most important delivery system of reproduction hanging and sagging and visible with only a few layers of skin around it is supposed to “dominate” the other gender?
I had so many questions as a kid that made me go- “this isn’t logical.” I remember watching nature shows where lots of females of other species- bird, mammalian and fish could reject the male after he did his courtship “ritual” if it just didn’t interest them. I thought, even as a 9 year old girl-human females have to settle more with whom they mate, it seems, than a bird or a fish or a bear.
My Sunday School teacher for about 2 years just kept me busy running errands, making things and not letting me answer questions with MORE questions.
And I loved your metaphors in this piece- very good at a visual to explain misandry.
You’re always a joy to read, Dina. Thanks for that.
Great read—I finished and enjoyed it while waiting at the dentist 😊. Thank you for sharing it.
I must admit I was as well a bit behind the times and had to Google misandry.
While reading, I found myself thinking about the millions of women and young girls in my country, Afghanistan, who are brutally deprived of opportunities, rights, and freedoms simply because of their gender.
The bright and smiling faces of little girls I see in streets born into a country and culture where being female is a basis for exclusion and condemnation are something I can never fully comprehend without feeling heartbroken. They possess so much potential, talent, and hope for life, yet so much of it is stifled by a deeply ingrained patriarchal system—one that, in many cases, is also perpetuated and supported by women themselves.
THANK YOU FOR SPREADING THE RIGHT WORDS!