I encountered one of these performative feminists at a book reading and there was a palpable sense that he was using that as his shtick. And that doesn’t really help the cause much now does it? I love this piece and I stand in solidarity with you and your work. And I hope one day what is so obvious to you, me, most women will become clearer to men. But right now they just don’t seem to see what the problem is: that the patriarchy enslaves us all.
No, but it probably helps their algorithm…it is harmful for everyone. Something that again, women have been saying for years as we try to Avengers Assemble a team to take it on. Thank you for taking the time to read and leave your thoughts, I really appreciate it! Team Smash.
I'm convinced that creating a generation of thoughtful, decent young men really comes down to parenting. Most importantly, the kind of parenting that holds boys accountable for misdeeds and disrespect, as well as demonstrating to them that women--their mothers, in particular--are human, not just there to serve them. Yeah, there's a lot of counter-programming going on in the wide world, but setting expectations for their behavior and their self-sufficiency goes a long way toward giving them the values they need to combat the more egregious manosphere nonsense. Moms who earn a paycheck, who are educated, who encourage sons and husbands to take on their fair share of the domestic workload, etc tend to be more egalitarian as they get older. Parents who let their sons skate through life and who defend them even when they are dead wrong, are not doing their kids any favors.
I’ve got two young adult sons, who would use the word Feminist to describe themselves. I see them and their friends, all of whom grew up with a lot less in the way of rigid gender roles than I did and most of them are great young men. It’s why I struggle sometimes with how many boys get sucked into the red-pill pipeline. We have a lot of conversations about value and invisible labor in our house. And their father is a great role model.
Yup. It's funny, when my son was in college he joined a fraternity, much to my concern. He promised me he'd never join a "douchey frat" (his words) and it turns out all of these young men, people who are still in his social circle ten years later, are all, to a person, great guys. Most of them are now married to lovely young women, all of whom are ambitious in their own right. None of them appear to be threatened by women with opinions and accomplishments, which I find so refreshing. Good for them.
Hmm. That might put a lot of pressure on the mothers, usually the prominent parenter. It seems maybe useless to say the men, not just fathers, but a growing, eventual critical mass of them have to stand up to the critical mass that harms women physically, intellectually, socially and spiritually.
Totally agree, but I was focused on moms as role models that demonstrate our humanity. And, hopefully, any woman who raises sons like this would, I hope, be married to men who are on board with these values.
Ah, Dina! The old “What’s selling? Let’s make a buck off of it!” ploy. Thank you for writing this and sounding a warning that is well needed. By the way, good old Francis Crick makes a spectacularly gross appearance in the fabulous book “The Exceptions” by Kate Zernike. He introduces himself to scientist Nancy Hopkins by walking up behind her, reaching around to grab her breasts, then asking what she’s working on. It’s just all so… so tedious. Excellent piece, as always!
Off to put that book on my want to read list....it IS tedious. I toyed with even writing this. Then I wrote it and I debated whether to publish it. In the end, I felt like it was worth it. Time shall tell! Have you heard the joke about "What did Crick and Watson famously discover?" and someone yells out "Rosalind Franklin's notes!".
So well-written and a sentiment that I haven't seen much of, so thank you for sharing this. Slightly OT but: Ethan Hawke didn't do it for me in DPS; I was madly in love with the character of Neil Perry though. (He was clearly gay-coded, but I wouldn't realize that until much later)
That’s worth more exploration, the idea of LGBTQ coding even in the late 1980s in movies and television. Looking back, like you say, it seems more obvious, but also we all never questioned Boy George’s sexuality in the 80s so…there was clearly a lot of heavy lifting going on there…
So, this is brilliant, and really helpful to me. Thank you. I've been on the fence about the Man Slam I scheduled for February since I announced it, and even before...and so far, I've found 5 men who want to do it. But, have any of them signed up as paid subscribers to support the mission of my project. Only one. Have any of them come to the slam to check it out? To hear us tell our stories?
One, once. I made it clear that I wasn't interested in stories that proclaimed these men's belief that men and women are equal. Duh. I want men to come tell stories about how they're doing the work of changing our sick systems. I have no sense that the ones I've said yes to will do this. Maybe one? There's a lot of heavy lifting to do to achieve change most of us have worked for over the course of our long lives. We're doing the work. Shouldn't they?
I think it's called taking responsibility and fixing what's broken. And it's clearly broken. They have to decide what they're willing to give up for something new and healthy.
So I may scrap the idea, and keep it a women/trans/queer space, with the possible exception of my annual coming out event. But even that's a question now.
Love you, Dina, each and every week. This space called Substack wouldn't be nearly as rich as it is with your presence.
Actually, you raise an excellent point about subscribing/paying vs a platform. It’s a narrow bridge we walk—men’s voices are important, especially as first person narratives about how the system fucks them over, and for reaching out to other men—but not if it comes at the expense of women. I don’t know how to police that, not really. I do know that whatever decision you make will be the right one.
I think I need to find a way to make it clear somewhere on the website that men need to support the slam with their dollars and their attendance. That was the original framework I intended.
The other piece isn't about men. The other piece is women financially supporting one another. What I'm doing is a heavy lift. It's requires more than full-time work and eventually I'd like it to support me and others I bring in, in a modest way.
I need to hire people to help, but I can't afford that yet. I have a couple of lovely volunteers, and couple of people have stepped up financially in impressive ways. And every paid subscriber and ticket buy helps enormously.
Some of us have the means, some of us don't. I try to be as generous as possible given my lower middle class to upper poor class status.
What I can't give in cash, I give with my energy and time. Don't get me wrong, I love what I'm doing, more than anything I've ever done.
After reading this essay and Susan's essay on the power of old women, hags, yesterday, I think I'm going to make February Hags & Crones month. What do you think? Want to be in it? 2027.
People get mad at me when I say oppression oppresses the oppressors, but it does. Just like power corrupts. I don't even say it to demand empathy (although it does help me personally have some), more just that it's good for all of us to understand the mechanics of a system and how it undervalues and diminishes everyone involved. (And that perhaps there's an incentive in there to give up power.)
I know this isn't really your point, but it's what came up for me. Great writing, thanks for sharing.
Thanks , Amy. I think what you said is part of the point for sure, all of it—especially being an incentive to give up positions of leadership. It’s like if the system is screwing you over, help us build a better system. But there is no automatic captain in that quest, because…that’s sort of what got us all into this mess.
I'm glad you wrote this and developed your concerns in more detail. (I saw your note the other day.) You've made me intensely curious about these men, and I understand why you don't link to them, but I would love to see an example!
Brilliant as always, Dina. I saw Zawn's note, and it hit such a chord. I'm glad you wrote about it further. A while back, Nan and I had a run-in with a philosophy professor, a man who is doing just that: a self-published book of feminism and all, which he then used to prove he was a real feminist, and we didn't know what we were talking about. The tinge of "bitch" was all over it. When I looked at the book, there was waaaaay too much ink spilled in the meticulous and footnoted argument (for which that discipline is famous) that women are indeed fully human. He challenged me to disagree with that. sugh. Then I was outy-out. Nan has more fortitude.
I absolutely adore how you think and write. “Performative feminist raccoons” 🤣 Thank you for exploring this important concept. I think my conclusion is that we just have to claim it for ourselves as society is never going to simply give us our humanity as is should be ours.
I encountered one of these performative feminists at a book reading and there was a palpable sense that he was using that as his shtick. And that doesn’t really help the cause much now does it? I love this piece and I stand in solidarity with you and your work. And I hope one day what is so obvious to you, me, most women will become clearer to men. But right now they just don’t seem to see what the problem is: that the patriarchy enslaves us all.
No, but it probably helps their algorithm…it is harmful for everyone. Something that again, women have been saying for years as we try to Avengers Assemble a team to take it on. Thank you for taking the time to read and leave your thoughts, I really appreciate it! Team Smash.
I'm convinced that creating a generation of thoughtful, decent young men really comes down to parenting. Most importantly, the kind of parenting that holds boys accountable for misdeeds and disrespect, as well as demonstrating to them that women--their mothers, in particular--are human, not just there to serve them. Yeah, there's a lot of counter-programming going on in the wide world, but setting expectations for their behavior and their self-sufficiency goes a long way toward giving them the values they need to combat the more egregious manosphere nonsense. Moms who earn a paycheck, who are educated, who encourage sons and husbands to take on their fair share of the domestic workload, etc tend to be more egalitarian as they get older. Parents who let their sons skate through life and who defend them even when they are dead wrong, are not doing their kids any favors.
I’ve got two young adult sons, who would use the word Feminist to describe themselves. I see them and their friends, all of whom grew up with a lot less in the way of rigid gender roles than I did and most of them are great young men. It’s why I struggle sometimes with how many boys get sucked into the red-pill pipeline. We have a lot of conversations about value and invisible labor in our house. And their father is a great role model.
Yup. It's funny, when my son was in college he joined a fraternity, much to my concern. He promised me he'd never join a "douchey frat" (his words) and it turns out all of these young men, people who are still in his social circle ten years later, are all, to a person, great guys. Most of them are now married to lovely young women, all of whom are ambitious in their own right. None of them appear to be threatened by women with opinions and accomplishments, which I find so refreshing. Good for them.
Hmm. That might put a lot of pressure on the mothers, usually the prominent parenter. It seems maybe useless to say the men, not just fathers, but a growing, eventual critical mass of them have to stand up to the critical mass that harms women physically, intellectually, socially and spiritually.
Totally agree, but I was focused on moms as role models that demonstrate our humanity. And, hopefully, any woman who raises sons like this would, I hope, be married to men who are on board with these values.
Ah, Dina! The old “What’s selling? Let’s make a buck off of it!” ploy. Thank you for writing this and sounding a warning that is well needed. By the way, good old Francis Crick makes a spectacularly gross appearance in the fabulous book “The Exceptions” by Kate Zernike. He introduces himself to scientist Nancy Hopkins by walking up behind her, reaching around to grab her breasts, then asking what she’s working on. It’s just all so… so tedious. Excellent piece, as always!
Off to put that book on my want to read list....it IS tedious. I toyed with even writing this. Then I wrote it and I debated whether to publish it. In the end, I felt like it was worth it. Time shall tell! Have you heard the joke about "What did Crick and Watson famously discover?" and someone yells out "Rosalind Franklin's notes!".
Oh Dina, my Dina! You are so fucking awesome! Love this. You inspire me to look deeper at the world, the patriarchy, and myself. Thanks! ❤️💪✍️
Jen, I haven’t even had my coffee yet, don’t make me teary!
😊💕😊💕😊💕
So well-written and a sentiment that I haven't seen much of, so thank you for sharing this. Slightly OT but: Ethan Hawke didn't do it for me in DPS; I was madly in love with the character of Neil Perry though. (He was clearly gay-coded, but I wouldn't realize that until much later)
That’s worth more exploration, the idea of LGBTQ coding even in the late 1980s in movies and television. Looking back, like you say, it seems more obvious, but also we all never questioned Boy George’s sexuality in the 80s so…there was clearly a lot of heavy lifting going on there…
Oh....YEAH.
So, this is brilliant, and really helpful to me. Thank you. I've been on the fence about the Man Slam I scheduled for February since I announced it, and even before...and so far, I've found 5 men who want to do it. But, have any of them signed up as paid subscribers to support the mission of my project. Only one. Have any of them come to the slam to check it out? To hear us tell our stories?
One, once. I made it clear that I wasn't interested in stories that proclaimed these men's belief that men and women are equal. Duh. I want men to come tell stories about how they're doing the work of changing our sick systems. I have no sense that the ones I've said yes to will do this. Maybe one? There's a lot of heavy lifting to do to achieve change most of us have worked for over the course of our long lives. We're doing the work. Shouldn't they?
I think it's called taking responsibility and fixing what's broken. And it's clearly broken. They have to decide what they're willing to give up for something new and healthy.
So I may scrap the idea, and keep it a women/trans/queer space, with the possible exception of my annual coming out event. But even that's a question now.
Love you, Dina, each and every week. This space called Substack wouldn't be nearly as rich as it is with your presence.
xo
Actually, you raise an excellent point about subscribing/paying vs a platform. It’s a narrow bridge we walk—men’s voices are important, especially as first person narratives about how the system fucks them over, and for reaching out to other men—but not if it comes at the expense of women. I don’t know how to police that, not really. I do know that whatever decision you make will be the right one.
Thanks for that vote of confidence, Dina.
I think I need to find a way to make it clear somewhere on the website that men need to support the slam with their dollars and their attendance. That was the original framework I intended.
The other piece isn't about men. The other piece is women financially supporting one another. What I'm doing is a heavy lift. It's requires more than full-time work and eventually I'd like it to support me and others I bring in, in a modest way.
I need to hire people to help, but I can't afford that yet. I have a couple of lovely volunteers, and couple of people have stepped up financially in impressive ways. And every paid subscriber and ticket buy helps enormously.
Some of us have the means, some of us don't. I try to be as generous as possible given my lower middle class to upper poor class status.
What I can't give in cash, I give with my energy and time. Don't get me wrong, I love what I'm doing, more than anything I've ever done.
After reading this essay and Susan's essay on the power of old women, hags, yesterday, I think I'm going to make February Hags & Crones month. What do you think? Want to be in it? 2027.
I am 100% in for Hags and Crones.
YAY!!! I'll put you on the spreadsheet. THANKS, Dina! xo
People get mad at me when I say oppression oppresses the oppressors, but it does. Just like power corrupts. I don't even say it to demand empathy (although it does help me personally have some), more just that it's good for all of us to understand the mechanics of a system and how it undervalues and diminishes everyone involved. (And that perhaps there's an incentive in there to give up power.)
I know this isn't really your point, but it's what came up for me. Great writing, thanks for sharing.
Thanks , Amy. I think what you said is part of the point for sure, all of it—especially being an incentive to give up positions of leadership. It’s like if the system is screwing you over, help us build a better system. But there is no automatic captain in that quest, because…that’s sort of what got us all into this mess.
From now on, every time I hear a man talking about feminism, I'm going to be thinking: deckhand or captain?
Your essays are informative and I find comfort in the commraderie. But also, just wanted to say how much I enjoy your way with words
🙌🏼
Thanks, Kelly :-)
I'm glad you wrote this and developed your concerns in more detail. (I saw your note the other day.) You've made me intensely curious about these men, and I understand why you don't link to them, but I would love to see an example!
Brilliant as always, Dina. I saw Zawn's note, and it hit such a chord. I'm glad you wrote about it further. A while back, Nan and I had a run-in with a philosophy professor, a man who is doing just that: a self-published book of feminism and all, which he then used to prove he was a real feminist, and we didn't know what we were talking about. The tinge of "bitch" was all over it. When I looked at the book, there was waaaaay too much ink spilled in the meticulous and footnoted argument (for which that discipline is famous) that women are indeed fully human. He challenged me to disagree with that. sugh. Then I was outy-out. Nan has more fortitude.
Oh I have to read more of your work! Keep going. Thank you for sharing this. 💕
I absolutely adore how you think and write. “Performative feminist raccoons” 🤣 Thank you for exploring this important concept. I think my conclusion is that we just have to claim it for ourselves as society is never going to simply give us our humanity as is should be ours.